September 4, 2008...8:50 am

Palin a problem for Complementarians?

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The Gender Blog says not so much…

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6 Comments

  • benarbour03
    September 4, 2008 at 9:44 am

    Hank,

    I agree with Gender Blog on this one. The thing that I find interesting is that theologically conservative complementarians defend the honor of women in leadership when it benefits our causes (i.e. – the Republican Party), while we simultaneously raise the issue of women in leadership in order to castigate the idea of a female president in the case of Hillary Clinton’s run for the White House. I remember that Al Mohler dedicated an entire radio show to the issue, and he argued that women are not the ideal choice for governmental office. He did, to his credit, discuss in some detail that the issues matter most. He said that if a man was running on a racist, pro-abortion, anti-Christian values platform, and a women was the only candidate who shared his values, he wouldn’t hesitate to vote for the woman. But, he said it would be better for a male to be running instead of a woman.

    Am I the only person who sees that we conservative Christians play our cards when it is convenient? Why can’t we be more consistent? For the record, I am one of these theologically conservative, complementarian, pro-life Christians, so criticisms come back to me, too.

    Anybody else have thoughts?

    Reply
  • militarywifey
    September 4, 2008 at 9:59 am

    This makes sense to me. Thanks for the link BH.

    I’m surprised they didn’t mention Deborah from the Old Testament who was a clear leader of her people in Israel. She was also a married woman (there is no indication into whether or not she had children) but she led Israel through dark times.

    I do agree with benarbour that sometimes there is inconsistency. However, I think the main problem Christians found with Hillary Clinton was not her gender, but her stances on many critical issues (such as abortion). Also perhaps the fact that she is married to Bill Clinton, a very amoral President of recent times, also made many Christians look at her less than favorably. The same criticisms, more or less, have been levelled on Obama.

    Gov. Palin has stances on many issues which are in line with Christian principals and beliefs (although I still do have my questions on a few of her stances), so I believe that’s why there is more support of her.

    Reply
  • brotherhank
    September 4, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    @ Ben:

    As far as our stream of theologically complimentarian, pro-lifer Christians — I think we play the cards more when they’re needed, than when they’re convienent. I’ll grant that many conservative evangelicals who raised the “gender caution flag” with Hillary haven’t murmured a peep about Palin, but I don’t think the issue is that they themselves aren’t consistent, as much as they are consistently applying their inconsistent theology of gender roles, politics, and pretty much everything else under the sun.

    (I didn’t hear what Mohler said about Clinton, so I don’t necessarily want to handle that issue. And plus, I’m sure he’s got spies that read my blog, and I really need an A in Hebrew this semester.)

    However, it is worth noting the differences between the family structure of Palin and Clinton — at least at the level of Clinton having one mature, independent daughter to parent; as opposed to Palin’s four kids (one of which is a few months old) – now with one grandkid on the way.

    In other news, I’d kind of like to hear Palin’s thoughts on contraceptives….

    Reply
  • Genoise
    September 4, 2008 at 6:13 pm

    This is from my FAVORITE womens’ teacher, Audrey Broggi:

    The Glass Ceiling

    I am so stunned, I don’t know what to say or how to react. What has happened, what is happening in the political world absolutely blows my mind. I know it shouldn’t . . . what is happening is the natural culmination of the drift in our nation for years.

    Mrs. Palin spoke in Dayton saying, “It was rightly noted in Denver this week that Hillary left 18 million cracks in the highest, hardest glass ceiling in America. But it turns out the women of America aren’t finished yet. And we can shatter that glass ceiling once and for all.” Obviously she feels she is the one to finally shatter it – at least in the political world.

    But I want to go on the record for saying this. Jesus Christ already shattered the glass ceiling for women. He did it for all cultures, for all time. He already placed women in the highest positions of honor. And for Mrs. Palin? He entrusted her with the loftiest and most noble and most powerful position of all when He blessed her with five children. You can’t get any higher than that.

    When speaking of the job Mr. McCain offered to her, Mrs. Palin said, “I know that it will demand the best that I have to give, and I promise nothing less.”

    That’s really what every woman should say to the Lord when He places a tiny infant in her womb – “I know that this baby will demand the best that I have to give, and I promise nothing less.”

    There is so much in this world that demands the best a wife and mother can give. We all know the distractions that scream at us to leave our post. So much to distract us from the very honored place God has assigned to us. Because, you see, being a wife and mother really does demand the best any woman has to give. And the demands of the job never end.

    However principled and pro-life and smart Mrs. Palin is, her children need her. They don’t need a distracted mother on the national and international scene. They are ones who deserve the best she can give – and especially now. How much more would her children learn from her, how much more could American women learn from and admire Mrs. Palin if she would decide now, of all times, to put her family first?

    The Republican campaign’s slogan is “Country First.” In reality, the best way a wife and mother can really put her country first is by putting her family first. Mrs. Palin’s roles of wife and mother trump being governor of Alaska and certainly trump being vice president of the United States. God is big enough to do His work without shattering the families He established as the cornerstones of our nation.

    Reply
  • Genoise
    September 4, 2008 at 6:44 pm

    And here’s my 2 cents:

    I read the CBMW article and was sorely dissapointed. I take issue with this portion:

    “Therefore we must be careful to not go beyond the teaching of the Bible. The Bible calls women to specific roles in the church and home, but does not prohibit them from exercising leadership in secular political fields. Rather, the Queen of Sheba is presented in 1 Kings 10:1-13 in a positive light in her interaction with King Solomon. Queen Esther offers an even better example of a woman who appropriately exerted influence for the good of her people without holding the highest position of national authority (Esther 2:17). ”

    We are talking about the HEBREW model here. God’s people who recieved His commands, and therefore set the tone for how we should live as a culture. First of all the Queen of Sheba wasn’t a Jew. She was a foreigner. We know nothing of her reign or the people she ruled. A very poor example.
    Second, Esther was the Queen of PERSIA. Not a Jewish queen. Yes, she exerted influence, but she made, and enforced no laws. She was subject to the rule of her husband.
    Whenever a King of Isreal died, no queen ruled in his stead. The one example we see of a Jewish queen exerting great influence, over a Jewish king, was Jeezebel. And I don’t think we really need to go there. :-)
    As for Deborah, if we read her account she was a judge and prophetess. She interpreted the law, she didn’t make it. Not only that, but the Word tells us that: ” She held court under the Palm of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim, and the Israelites came to her to have their disputes decided.” Notice, she did not sit in the gate of any city as was the custom with male judges. I wonder if maybe she stayed close to home since she sat under the “Palm of Deborah”. Not only that, the mantra of Judges is: “Again the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the LORD…” and ‘evryone did what was right in his own eyes.’ Isn’t that where we are today?

    I am convinced that a woman’s role in government should be limited for the same reasons Paul gives for limited roles in ministry. But then again, “did God REALLY say…”?

    Reply
  • Genoise
    September 4, 2008 at 10:34 pm

    Voddie again, taking the bull by the horns (must be a Texan thing):

    Voddie Baucham Ministries

    Waking up the Sheeple

    Wednesday, September 3, 2008

    The past several days have been incredibly revealing. I have received numerous emails, phone calls, and interview requests since my August 30th post on John McCain’s VP pick. I have even earned the infamous “fundamentalist” label from one group (this is the term used to marginalize those who make politically incorrect arguments). So I’m getting it from the left and the right. Though much of the response has been positive, I must admit there has been more backlash from Christian Republicans than I expected. Unfortunately, it has all (and I do mean all) been off the mark. As I feared, many people simply follow like sheep when it comes to the political process. The main thrust of the visceral responses has fallen into three distinct categories. Some have accused me of writing a “hit piece” designed to help Mr. Obama. A second group has criticized my failure to apply the pro-family standard consistently. Finally, there are those who are just plain disappointed that I addressed a political issue.

    A Hit Piece to Help Mr. Obama.

    I must admit I find this accusation a bit comical. On April 18th I wrote a blog entitled, Barack Obama: A Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing. In that post, I absolutely hammered Mr. Obama for what I referred to as his support for infanticide. Ironically, I received a number of emails, phone calls and letters referring to that blog as –you guessed it– a “hit piece” designed to undermine Mr. Obama’s campaign. Interestingly, one internet attacker who took issue with my treatment of Mrs. Palin wrote:

    I really have to question his motivations on this one. To me it feels like a hit piece, trying to make others feel like they are hypocritical on the issue. Yet where is that same thoughts on Baptist(s) (Black and otherwise) (who) are willing to vote for Obama in spite of the his stand of the murder of unborn children. I think we need to pull that log out of his eye before we start looking for splinters.

    This is amazing! Not only have I blogged about Mr. Obama’s position on abortion, I have also preached about it. I have preached in my church, and at two Christian Universities on Mr. Obama’s support for homosexual marriage and infanticide. Just a cursory look at my blog would have revealed that. I have said it before, and I’ll say it again. I refuse to vote for either Mr. Obama or Mr. McCain for that matter!

    Failure to Apply the Pro-Family Standard Consistently

    A second charge against my blog has centered around the fact that I targeted Mrs. Palin unfairly by pointing out her neglect of her family without pointing out the same thing in male politicians. There are two reasons for this. First, if you read the August 30th blog carefully, I do make mention of the fact that I would have a problem with a man in her position (five children, one a newborn with Down Syndrome) taking on the same job. The direct quote is, “ Let me also say that I would have the same reservations about a man with five children at home seeking the VP office.” Again, simply reading the blog carefully and thoroughly would have answered this objection.

    Second, I do not buy the Feminist ideology of equivocation on this matter. There is a double standard when it comes to caring for the home, and for children (1 Tim. 5:14; Titus 2:5). Women are to be “keepers of the home.” Men are to work and provide for their families (1 Tim. 5:8; 2 Ths. 3:10). Men are called to be providers. There is a difference between a man with a demanding job and a woman with a demanding job. While men with children to raise need to be careful not to neglect their calling as fathers, they must also realize that providing is part of that calling. I make no apology for holding a woman to a different standard on this matter because I believe God does.

    Finally, while I agree wholeheartedly that the Obamas have as much to answer for on this as do the Palins (they have two young daughters and a working mother plus a father running for President), the issue in my blog was the response of conservative Evangelicals beating the pro-family drum the moment the Palin announcement was made. My blog was not about whom we should vote for; it was about the Christian community following blindly (and uncritically) behind a political party and failing to speak forth God’s truth on a serious matter. Which leads me to the final complaint.

    Preachers Have No Place in Politics

    First, let me say that I disagree completely with those who say preachers should stay out of political issues. That, however, is a discussion for another day. In the meantime, please note that the aforementioned blogs –the one on Obama and the one on McCain– share one thing in common; I was addressing the “Christian” response. In the Obama piece I was addressing black liberals who were ignoring the abortion issue (in response to a news story). In the McCain piece I was addressing conservative Evangelicals whom I believed were redefining the term pro-family to apparently mean anyone who opposes abortion (also in response to a news story).

    Let me also say a word to those who argue that “we cannot hold political candidates to biblical standards.” Why not? What other standard is there? Should we hold them to a Buddhist, Muslim, or HIndu standard? How about a Secular Human, neo-Marxist, or New Age standard? What, pray-tell, should the standard be if not the Bible? Do we have one standard for pro-life in the church and another for Mr. Obama? Do we have one standard for pro-family in the church and another for Mrs. Palin? I think not. The whole point of my blogs was this: We cannot trade in the Bible for pragmatic utilitarianism when election time rolls around.

    I stand with Jesus! I’ll dump a political party in a heartbeat. I am sick and tired of watching leading Evangelicals compromise in order to prevent the earth from turning to dust if the wrong guy is elected. Where’s our faith? We ought to speak God’s truth and let the chips fall where they may. We must bow to no man. If Mr. McCain or Mr. Obama don’t want Evangelicals to say things that may hurt them in the polls, they ought to speak and act like the Christians they both claim to be. Instead, they know that their constituencies within the Christian community (black liberals for Obama and white Evangelicals for McCain) will not speak too loudly when they get out of line because both groups are more concerned with winning than with truth.

    I refuse to believe that following a party like sheep is the answer to our problems. We must maintain our prophetic voice, and that voice must be consistently Scriptural. I don’t have all of the answers. I’m just trying to wrestle with the questions as honestly as I can.

    Reply

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